[Bardenracing42]

I honestly believe the individual who wins the B feature on any given night is going to be in a no win situation. If he/she wins the B, they should have been an A car. If they were in the A feature, they would have run at the back of that. It is not the fault of the driver that they were placed in the B feature, and won it. I have seen Eric Wagner, Rob Newman, and now Marc Long all be villified because they went out and did what they were SUPPOSED TO TRY TO DO....win.

Unfortunately, this is a societal problem created by the notion that everyone is a winner, and all get a trophy for participating. People just can't stand the notion that they can't be the winner and want to make it someone else's fault.

If and when I finally get my car back together, it will likely be a B car. I will try to make it a winner, but if it isn't.....I will not bitch and whine, I will try to make it better and win the following week. If not then the next week and the week after. I will not be one of the crybabies who parks his car just because I got beat.

We can't win everytime out. Man up and deal with it.

[James s]

well guess what buddy i have won a heat and feature when newman,long,and all the other sand bagers wasn't out there and yes i lost some to when they wasn't. iv had guys try to destroy my car cus they thought i was to fast well guess what my car will only turn a 15.7 15.8 on a good day so when u got guys out there that can turn a 14.8 14.9 y would i bring it out i rather let it sit in my garage and look pretty.

[ken#8]

who in the hell you calling a sissy???? im out there every week Ive had more then my share of break downs this yr but im out there... I havent had the chance to win the feature cause of the breakdowns and I push my car to what it will do with tight funds to work with best I have got is a 15.6 on that note how in hell can I compete with cars that run 14s ??? I think the other racers that are out there running the B all have the same problem its called MONEY .. I will say this much for those drivers we run together clean fun racing and all around the same times 15.5 and up then we got cars and trucks throwed into the mix that can run 14s who is going to win ??? yep the money cars .. I dont understand your reasoning for not seeing any farther then the end of your nose when you are strapped for funds which you must be cause you havent been out there running... and then you sit there and say a driver is a sissy or whining cause he or she feels like whats the sence in trying to win a race when we have a snowballs chance in hell to do it .... I really think they ought to put a $ 500.00 claimer on the B cars im talking unbolt the headers intake and carberator unbolt the tranny pull the motor then lets see if we have cars that want to go in the B main that can run 14s ..Crystal does it and he has a hell of alot of cars all running equal ..maybe thats the answer to solve the BS ...just remember when you get your car out there and you have very little money left over for improvements to get the car faster and you get blowed away because a money car is allowed to run a full second over you and the rest of the drivers I think you would change your thought of calling a fellow driver a sissy...........

[letsgoracing]

I'm confused. Long and Dent did not get the black flag Friday night for speeding (sandbagging) in either race. Newman only received the black flag for speeding (sandbagging) in the heat race. Jenn Wilt received the black flag for five consecutive laps in a row in the feature. Which means she went .20 seconds faster than her qualifying time for 5 laps. Why is she not considered a sandbagger.

[Mopar93]

Everyone seems to think the B main and A main have cars running in them from two different classes. They aren't two different classes, they are the same class, just two different features.

Look at the rule book, there isn't a set of rules for the A main cars and another for the B main cars. It is one set of rules that everyone follows, and it's a pretty loose set of rules.

This class is designed to help eliminate cheating. Forget the idea of having engine claims, it's not going to happen. You can do whatever you want to your engines. You can run your cheated up Pure Stock engines, it's legal. You can run any compression ratio, you can port your heads.

It's not up to the drivers to decide where the split between A and B features happens. That is the job of the Race Director and Promoter. They decide that based on various factors and it is not always where the biggest gap in qualifying times is. There will always be someone who is not happy with how the split ends up. Deal with it and race, there is always next week.

For those who feel they aren't quite fast enough in the B main, cheat your motors up a little. It's legal. There is a lot you can do without spending very much money, sometimes it just takes knowledge, time, and hard work, something every true racer has a lot of.

If you prefer to keep your cars slow enough to run in a C main rather than trying to go fast enough to compete well in the B main, then wait until there are more cars so there will be a C main. At that point in time, the slowest C drivers will be complaining about you because they feel you should be running in the B main, not the C main.

-Maurice

[jason]

She's not considered a sandbagger because she didnt lap the whole field.

[letsgoracing]

Sandbagging (racing), deliberately qualifying slower than what the car can actually perform.

Nothing in there about lapping anyone. She was disqualified for speeding, sandbagging, going faster than her qualifying time.

[jason]

The probem is most of the abc stocks are pures.without them your only going to have an a class.all the cheap upgrades have been done.if you dont think so come see mme tomrroww night. If long belongs then so does mary and jimmy scvarta.then long wont like it cause because jimmy will win all the time.you tell us to make our cars faster but you dont give long and newman the same advice.they didnt want to make there cars faster.we dont want to spend more money. Why dont they just have a b class for those four cars.most of the drivers want to race in an inexspensive class but its ruined by the greed of other drivers.

[jason]

I totally agree with you there. By what you are saying, those cars in the B's that are lapping the whole field, they have deliberately slowed their cars down to run in the B's. If they ran to the cars potential then they would be running in the 14's just like they have been for the first part of the season. And that would put them in the A's. So by your own definition that is sandbagging.

[Todd]

letsgoracing

I would like to know how you how long you have been racing or following the races?

As far as Jenn "wilt" now Flagg goes this is her second season racing first time qualifying under the new rule ever of a single car two lap qualifing!!!! with that said Yes friday here qualifing was slow 16.2 and yes she broke out in the heat race and feature look back at all her times over the season and see where she consistantly runs and you will see she is not sandbagging just running the times she normally runs...As far as anyone talking +*$# about her sandbagging she dont even know how to sandbag if you feel you need to mention her name in any of your +*$# talk maybe you should call me and we can talk and you will understand just pm me and I will give you my number...we are new to the racing thing and right now seeing all of this whine ass talk from guys that have raced for 10 20 even 30 years is pretty rediculous!! makes a newer racer not even want to associate with the sport. As far as the comments of doing more work and make the car faster I agree with that to a point at what point do you stop. If everyone were to continue to spend money on their cars there will be no A&B class at that point it will be all one feature which would be a hell of a feature...but you might as well call the class a prostock class....

I am not on here to whine about and to the other drivers ultimately our class choices whether it be A or B's is not up to us to decide who runs what and where the split is the track officials make that decision for us...

I think this post has taken a very horrible right turn into the wall and lost its focus on where it started!! lets remember we are all racing to win and drive to the you and the cars can perform and at the end of the day say you had fun doing it...We are not nascar we will never get rich doing it at this track!!!

[Bill Lackey]

Here's new language that we will use beginning Friday, July 20......all other rules will remain the same........hopefully this will be fair to everyone and take any decision making out of officials hands and let the math do the talking.

The split between A and B divisions will be determined by the largest gap between qualifying times of mid pack cars.

[Jim Leasure]

Todd is right when he said "right turn into the wall". Anything more is likely redundancy.

We have all had a chance to voice our opinions and I think much has been said, and much of which is good information. Much has also been learned.

In an earlier post I described how the split will work Friday. I am asking everyone to give it the benefit of the doubt until it is tried and I am proven wrong. My opinion is that it is fair and doesn't favor any driver over another. One could make the argument that cars are being deliberately slowed down, which is pretty obvious but: (1) they will still have to make the split which is not determined by track officials but by the math which everyone will have access to at the drivers meeting (2) everyone will be qualifying blindly (3) everyone will have the same break out restrictions so when the split is made where the largest gap in Q time is made every car should be very close for the entire event with the fastest cars having to come from the rear.

That should make a good show as well as impose parity through out the field. When we have a C the same policy will likely apply if it works. Times will all be very close in all features with the faster cars in the rear. It makes sense and it should give every and all cars the best opportunity to win the feature.

The only reason it hasn't worked so far is because we (mostly me) haven't made the splits in the optimum spot to accomplish what we are going to accomplish. If I had it to do over I would be on it earlier but the reality is we have made an adjustment that seems very obvious to me will solve this issue of some cars having an advantage. This system will work and it will give every driver a shot. Every driver won't win a feature or a championship but every driver has much more fun when the cars are racing door to door and they are being lapped.

Also in my earlier post I offered to talk to anyone with a question. So far I have not had a call or email so I am assuming you are on board with my explanation(s). If not let me know. This is new and was a little risky but it makes all the sense in the world and now that we have some experience it makes even more sense once the tweaks are implemented.

Jim

[WCR 87]

All I have to say on this is everybody talks about how they slowed the car and truck down to be in the b class but if u look at the times they run in the features they haven't slowed them down at all they are using the gas puddle and not pushing the car or truck just so the have that half a second to play with and I agree with Jason if everybody thinks that the 7 and 17 belong in the b class so do the 42 and 72 because the are full frame cars. And no body gets called a sandbagger for being 2 tenths over there time it is when they lap the whole field or leave them on the last lap by a 5 to 10 car lengths then when the times come out they were a half a sec faster then their time but it is always just for one lap and that's on the track until they give a paper with every lap time by every driver nobody will be happy hearing it was only one lap show everybody it was.


And I don't know how anybody can feel good about winning against cars that can't compare to u I know I wouldnt

[ken#8]

THANK YOU JIM I do understand how hard this to determine whats what ..I would like to throw this out to you and Bill I read a post from some guy on here about giving 3 warm up laps then do the 2 laps for qualifying so in total we get 5 laps each car to warm up the tires and qualify..because we all know the tires need heated up good so that we can get the best lap time.. as far as the break out rule in the heat I think it should be within a quarter sec. of there qualifying time.. if they go over that quarter sec. black flagged and put on the back of the A main ... example if a car qualify say 16.01 and goes out in the heat runs 15.1 then we all know that the car was holding back..if there was a quarter sec. rule for the break out in the heat this would stop . and in the feature if they go over quarter sec blacked flag. Or maybe you might consider this if a driver breaks out over the quarter sec. feature time that driver will be automatically be considered 1 lap down start the rear of the field lap down then he or she will have 20 laps to go threw the field twice in order to win just something to think about..I talked with another driver that dont have a computer and this was his suggestion on being a lap down...

[Mopar93]

Taking 3 warm up laps during qualifying would make qualifying take too long. However, you could send one car out and when that car is half way around, send one more. Both cars then go for 5 laps at full speed, they will remain about a half lap away from each other so they don't get in each other's way, plus they can't pace with each other.

On the 5th lap, wave the checkered and take the fastest lap for the qualifying time. Those who run good on cold tires will get a fast lap around the 2nd lap and those who run good on warmed up tires will do well on the 5th lap.

With two cars at a time doing 5 laps, it won't take much longer than running one car at a time for two qualifying laps.

Just a suggestion, ignore it if necessary.

-Maurice