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shocks/suspensions
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so_co_03



Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all i would like to know what every one is calling a high dollar shock..... and second I'm with Tommy have a round table meeting with people who actualy have a card in the race before you make a decision thanks
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flying14



Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, lets have a meeting.
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't limit the shocks, then at least consider eliminating the ride height rule of 4 inches. That way, the guy who cannot afford to spend extra money on shocks can at least adjust his chassis where he needs it to be without having to worry if he's too low or not. Some will handle better at 3 inches than they will at 4 inches. Sometimes only one corner needs to be under 4 inches.

The guys with the BBSS setups usually ride higher than 4 inches. The guys without might need to be less than 4 inches to compete. It all depends, there's many factors involved.

And it would be one less item that needs to be teched.

Remember, chassis adjustments don't cost money. And as Tom Jr said, these are not Pure Stocks. Let them adjust the chassis.

Teching for bump stops is a waste of time and it's another rule enforcement that has to be constantly checked. How do you write the rule? How much suspension travel are you going to allow and how are you going to measure it? First you have a ride height measurement and then you have a bottom out ride height measurement. This just adds more complexity to the teching.

-Maurice
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Russrace



Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TOM HERNLY JR wrote:
For the record- It's not the shocks and sway bars that keep people away from those tracks...
Tom Jr


No horse in this race but...

Tom, I would argue it is. Kazoo is down to 7-8 full time points cars. Everyone needs to decide if this class is headed to a East Coast Tour Mod agenda with Penske/Ohlins, splined bars, LW Qc's ,etc or does it stay in the true spirit of what the last generation of racers that made the MODs so popular with OEM clips, GM Spindles, OEM Lowers, OEM bars and the like.

Big difference between a store bought twin tube AFCO and custom built mono tube Penske. Purchase the AFCO with 260/260# comp/reb and shim the Penske to match...watch the Penske run away after about 100 cycles on the Dyno. BBSS has migrated from North Carolina to all forms of racing good or bad. The guys that make it work are going to guard it like Ft Knox. The guys that can't afford it are gonna park their cars at some point.

It's in the promoters hands...they need to decide which rules generate a full A main weekly.
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rooster07



Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 397
Location: lansing

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really have no say in this yet but I wouldn't mind having a cost limit rule but best way to settle this is to have a meeting with drivers only.
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MATHEW VAINNER
"THE ROOSTER"07
PAPA MOTORSPORTS
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Jim Leasure



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 898

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While reading all of the input from our site as well as mstrc I get the feeling that not many people are on board one way or another, in fact I think this may be the only subject that leaves many confused as to what the correct answer may be. Obviously most of the easy questions have been answered and we are down to the tough ones.

The issue has to be defined, assuming there is an issue, then the options will need to be evaluated before any one decides what the best solution might be. On top of that every track operator that runs Mods should be on board.

From Spartan's point of view a few things that I think are the responsibility of the tracks to consider are as follows.

1. Whatever is mandated it needs to be reasonably easy to tech and enforce.
2. Cost to teams should carry a lot of weight. Including the cost of time.
3. What are the reasons the Modified division is so popular? What are the factors that have drawn previous Late Model teams to the Mods?
4. Are we promoting parity with in a division or are we contributing to a spread?
5. Are we stifling creativity? Is this the beginning of an Outlaw Modified division?
6. As a business are we on top of our game when we think we are making the right choices based on what we are hearing or do we need to listen to the teams that are silent, typically acceptable to change until change crosses the invisible line and they stop having fun, which is the beginning of the end?

Well, welcome to the world of tough decisions. If we answer a few of the above questions honestly, based on what is best overall for the Mod division the correct answer might be a little clearer.

Spartan has taken the position of being an affordable place to race, to operate and to attend as a race fan. Affordability has become paramount and will be so going forward. I am scared to death of racing becoming too difficult to get into for the generations that use to be coming up. I say "use to be" because they are now here. Just ask yourself. Is the sport of racing seeing an influx of new competitors?

The shock deal is one issue, which is workable, the other is obviously bump stop, bbss or what ever the term is. Frankly I am too confused at this point.
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84



Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#3 Becuase its cheaper.
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TOM HERNLY JR



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim,

I agree with all of your points above. I am usually quiet on these message boards but this topic is of particular concern to me. I feel there are many,many misconceptions. Feel free to call me if you have any questions.

The set-up I used all season long on the Pink Fox 47 is as basic as they come. I have raced with every set-up style we are discussing and have visual graphs of the dynamics of each if that would help you better understand.

I had very little rebound in both front shocks. E and D stacks, .020 bleed
I had a 400# lf spring and a 450# rf spring.
I used a 1 1/16" stock style sway bar.
175# lr and a 150# rr spring
I had plenty of car to compete for the win in any race I entered

Now, to change my car over to a big bar,bump stop set-up it would only cost me $500.00 in equipment at most. Far cry from what everyone is talking or convinced it takes. Of course it makes it easier since I have rebuildable shocks, which save racers money. And frankly I enjoy that do-it yourself part of racing.

Racing is about balance, all 4 corners. Regardless of which set-up you choose balance is paramount. My cars were fast not because of $$. But because of the knowledge and time spent at the shop designing and working on the cars.

Good luck my friend,

Tom Jr
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Russrace



Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see a pro-active promoter involved- no matter which way the rule deal slides Jim has a handle on the pro's/cons.
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Rock the Kazmar



Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 75
Location: Marshall, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you go strictly by the USA Modified rules you will find that there is already a shock rule that will put this whole argument to an end. It says;

"9. SHOCKS: (Amended 01/13/2009) Shocks must be, Non-adjustable, with No external canisters, and have a racer price of less than $250.00 New per shock. 1 shock per wheel. 1 additional shock allowed in the lift / pull bar area. No air shocks. All shock covers must be easily removed ( NO rubber motorcycle covers allowed )."

However, this rule will never work unless it is enforced.
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ron1r31



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:34 pm    Post subject: hey ho Reply with quote

just to let you know rock i'm not a usa mod.don't want to be eather. and i don't have the money to buy all them there good shock's. like i told jim if you all want to pay the money and have a claim then say no more. put the claim at 100 dollar a piece i think in 4 week's i can have 4 new shock. sound good don't it jim i'll take four
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Jim Leasure



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 898

PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After much time and research the shock rule will remain what it is for 2011. Thanks to the teams for their patience.
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ron1r31



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:42 pm    Post subject: shocks Reply with quote

hi dad i was just wondering if you were going to buy me them new shocks. i don't have the money all these other teams have. so that means you have to buy me new ones. thanks dad i'll be home soon and then we can go buy them.
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