[schinde]

Well,

I can add this much to the discussion.

Water systems in the US are required to replace any lead service lead lines to homes when they are discovered.

We are required to test for copper and lead content in the distribution system at least yearly, some systems quartely, some monthly, dependent upon levels detected.

Lead was a very common compound to be used when putting pipes (ductile and cast) together, commonly known as "leading the joints".

Fire hydrant ears, (where the hose connects) are still "leaded in place".

Many operators now do not want to perform this lost art of working lead. I know how to do it, and have done it many times, both joints in water mains and fire hydrant ears.

In my operator days, repalced many lead lines. (We called them shiny galvanized for convenience sake)

Many communities are required under the Safe Drinking Water Act to actively engage in lead line replacement, at an exorbitant cost.

Most water systems now use various chemical compounds to sequester lead and copper (prevent it from being dissolved by the water in the lines) pumped into the supplied water and sent to the distribution system.

Lead is a serious problem, but can be safely handled, and contained, and controlled.

I can remember, as I am sure Maurice can, doing automotive body rust repair work by "leading" the rusted areas, once a very common practice before "bondo" really became popular.

High levels of lead can indeed impair a child's growth and mental development. Care should be taken when dealing with lead based paint.

It is for that reason that water tower painting is now so expensive, as most towers you see, unless they were erected in the last ten to fifteen years, were painted with lead based paint, and in order to repaint them, require that the lead based paint be totally removed. Ever seen a tower fully enclosed? Removal of the lead paint is why. Remember the Big Mac paint work of the past ten years or so? Same deal. Highway underpasses? Again, same deal.

A common compound used for years for many good things, with education, we know a little more, and have taken steps to address it.

But, in closing, I don't believe that there is a serious hazard with those of us in short track racing and lead ballast.

Nor in running leaded fuels.

Maybe I'm just too old to be that worried anymore, I've been exposed to lead, asbestos, many, many things.

Oh well, still got some time to go.

have a good day,

schinde
_________________
Short track racing is more fun than a human being ought to be allowed to have!

[MSUleadpoison]

The patient in question had no other exposure to lead either through work or hobbies. The most common cause of lead exposure to adults in Michigan is either in the manufacture of brass/bronze casting or the removal of lead paint in homes or from metal structures, i.e bridges, water towers. The most common non work exposure is from using firing ranges with poor ventilation and exposure to the lead fumes from the multiple guns being fired, additionally among people who cast their own bullets or sinkers. Lead has a low metal pointing and even if you don't see fumes, melting lead cause fumes which are breathed in and absorbed through the lungs.

I am still not clear how often someone might melt lead for car ballast and where this would be done; outdoors, in their garage., etc? How is the ballast attached to the car?

Doc

[Jim B]

Per our rule book :

SECTION 3 - General Regulations

o) Added weight must be painted white with car number on each piece and secured with (2) one half inch bolts.

I think most lead ballast is purchased from race supply stores rather than personally cast. There are always do it yourselfers though.
_________________
Jim Barker - Timing, Scoring & Other Stuff

[putput75]

Oh know, Maurice has lead poisoning from melting the lead shoes off the dead horse. LOL Just kidding, horse shoes are made of steal. (right?)
Mike P
_________________
Go Fast...Turn Left...Repeat!!
http://www.cwproducts.zoomshare.com

[Bardenracing42]

lead can be melted in many ways. My buddy Bob (RIP) used a propane burner with a large iron pot and melted old wheel weights. Once he had enough lead melted he would cast them in a couple old valve covers. This was all done right in his garage

[todd metz sr.]

Hi Brian,

This post gonna stay or will it vanish into cyberspace too?????


Yogi

[Bardenracing42]

yogi,

I don't think my last post vanished. I believe it was deleted, probably because it was deemed abusive. And I have to say that it was a good call.

for the record, that was not my intention. It was intended to be somewhat satirical, and maybe a little saarcastic. But I intended no harm to anyone and forward my apologies if it was taken that way.

even though I try to be very reserved in my posts, I am not immune from occsionally opening my mouth and having something stupid fall out.

[Dennis ONeil]

Doc,
We often make light of things not really meaning to be hard hearted. Many of us have melted lead in the past for ballast and even scrap.
I would be very interested in knowing the safest way of doing this as we are planning on making some ballast soon.
In the past (20+ years ago) I used an old iron skillet on top of the kitchen stove. Young children present watching the process; I was ignorant to the hazard.
I am currently undergoing a series of tests do to an intestinal disorder.
I work in an automotive garage and have done so for most of the past 36 years and do believe that the fumes inhaled and the compounds ingested throughout my career could have put me at risk.
Back in the sixties my dad brought home this cool shiny liquid metal from work, maybe an ounce of it. This was something I handled a great length, if you rub old coins with it they too would shine. Perhaps this exposure to mercury at a pre teen age could account for some of the issues I have experienced? Dad did not know of the danger. At least I did not try to burn it.
_________________
Thanks
Dennis ONeil
www.oneilsauto.com

"A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE.............WORKS BETTER WHEN OPEN"

[Frenchracing]

2 yrs ago I melted about 250 lbs of wheel weight for ballast for mine and my son cars. I did it in the dead of winter of course. so I had my barn closed up while I was doing it. after about 2 hrs of this I walked outside into the fresh air and got the worse headache of my life. I was sick for 2 days. It scared the heck out of me , but after the next day I felt fine. I suppose that I absorbed a large amont of lead thru my lungs.and it wasnt good for me. Ive never been tested for lead poisoning that I know of. I am old enough that Im sure I chewed on lead paint on my crib, along with breathing leaded gas fumes while growing up. Is there actually a test for lead in your system? does lead stay in your system forever?
I would be interested in knowing.

[schinde]

Dennis,

I too, used to play with that shiny silver compound, roll it around on my desk at school, carried it in my hands, many, many things.

I have melted lead for ballast, for body work with torches, and worked with asbestos for boilers and abestos covered piping when repairing plumbing at older wastewater treatment plants.

Also cut, shaped, formed and replaced asbestos siding on my family farm that I lived in and then owned for thirty plus years.

Who knows, maybe that exposure will catch up to me someday, maybe not.

Quite frankly, I don't care. It is all part of life, and you and I both worked with the knowledge of things that we had in those days.

Now we perhaps, and I say perhaps, know better regarding some things, and may have amplified other "dangers" way too high.

Although I do agree, lead is a concern to be addressed as best as possible, and abated whenever possible. Same for asbestos.

On the other hand,

I believe the mercury threat in our Great Lakes fish is overblown, and the horrid danger of DDT was a farce. I used to spray that stuff from our old John Bean crop sprayer on our apple orchards and cherry trees regularly growing up, at least once every over week on two orchards of forty trees each.

But then, look at what I have turned into now!

Maybe all that exposure wasn't good for me after all?

anyway,

have a good day,

schinde
_________________
Short track racing is more fun than a human being ought to be allowed to have!

[Big Ed]

Maurice,

To answer your question any time you are working with ANYTHING that contains lead, you MUST beware of the DUST it generates, more than anything else in my personal opinion. It is the dust that infects so many children here in the United States, and has been the source of poisoning for the bulk of most cases I have had to deal with.

I don't know if there is any dust generated when melting, but it would seem there are fumes, which could contain the dust, which could lead to some poisoning. Again, unless exposed to it on a regular basis, AS AN ADULT, the damage is very minimal, BUT, if a child is exposed to these circumstances, I think the poisoning could possibly be severe.

I would have to dig out my books and see just exactly what the levels of danger are with the material in question here.

Big Ed

[MSUleadpoison]

When one is melting lead one needs to do it in a well ventilated area that will not contaminate surrrounding surfaces. At the minimum then it would be better to do it outdoors in an area where in the future toddlers will not play, and not have others around, particularly children. I asked the industrial hygienist who works with me for ideas about ventilation systems Here are some websites she provided me with examples of local exhaust systems. One would need to make sure that the equipment had a high efficiency particulate air (HEPA) filter for particulates, the proper cannister to collect lead fumesand the appropriate exhaust cfm for the unit.

http://www.nikro.com/new/pdf3.htm
http://www.cincinnatifan.com/portable-fume-exhausters.htm
http://www.lev-co.com/products.asp?SolutionID=6&sCatID=119&SwitchSolution=Switch
http://www.weldingsmoke.com/index.html

One also may want to consider using a "melting pot" such as on these websites to help control potential spills. Not knowing how much lead is being melted at one time, these may not be big enough.

http://www.wenesco.com
http://www.kitterytradingpost.com/product.php/pid/103/sid/650/tid/2523/prodid/1313

Finally wearing a respirator with the proper filters would also be useful. Whether one invested in safety equipment would depend how frequently one melted lead. A respirator with the proper filters would be a lot cheaper.

Any doctor can measure blood lead. The results of blood lead are only useful if one has been exposed in the two months before the blood sample is taken. After that most lead in our body is bound to bone and other tissues and although the lead has can have a cumulative effect since lead stays in our body for decades after exposure it is not easily measured after the acute exposure has ended.

Doc

[Big Ed]

I also wanted to comment that I am in agreement with the good Doc above. He is not trying to throw out scare tactics here, he is genuinely looking out for you folks that may not have any of the knowledge of how lead can poison you, and especially your children. As racers, you do come in contact with lead in a couple of different areas. Although the effects on you as an adult are not as great as how it could effect your children, it is still sound advice for you, and certainly cannot hurt you to take the proper precautions when dealing with lead in the future.

I thank you MSUleadpoison for bringing this subject to everyone's attention.

Big Ed

[mod911]

Professor, I will be of assistance if I can. I would be happy to learn from you while you learn form me. I made lead weights a few years ago with a torch and was careful of fumes but I would be interested in seeing real results from a real study.
I think maybe a study of noise and brake dust in the stands is needed. I see these as real issues. How much does 110 decibels and more affect toddlers in the front row of the stands. Maybe study the effects of tire soak chemicals in the stands and it's effect or lack of on the racing surface. Most promoters see tire soak as damaging the track and maybe poisioning spectators and use it as a way to sell and control tire sales. Wives tales rule racing around here. Some facts would be priceless.
A study of racing fuels and the dangers of gas v methanol would be a real winner.
I have 35 years of mechanical experience and 27 years racing experience.

[tricknology]

Hardly ANYBODY for the past few decades makes their own lead ballast blocks.

Just about every race car I see has lead bars made by a commercial builder of race car parts.

See this link for lead ballast blocks from a race car supply.

http://www.howeracing.com/PitEquipment/Index-SetupTools-Ballast.htm

Yes I have made my own blocks in the past, but I melted the lead outside with the fumes going down wind away from me. Same thing when I mixed up my own exotic racing fuel back in the 1980's

I also live in house in a city where all the house's main water supply from the street to the water meter is a LEAD PIPE> which is true for almost any house built before the 1970's.

Watch out for the slippery slope,,,first they wanted to smokers to only smoke in smoking rooms at work,,, now you can not even smoke in an out door stadium!

For MOST adults, A little exposure to these chemicals is not going to harm you,,if it did,,, all of us over 50 would have been dead long time ago.
In my humble opinion...Humans have been exposed to all kinds of chemicals for 1,000's of years via the open fires we had in our home for 1,000's of years. The chemicals that come from the combustion of wood, coal, kerosene, wax candles, and smoking meats, would be considered harmful today, yet for 1,000's of years we breathed in these chemicals everyday in our homes.


I do not buy into the second hand smoke being harmful to adults in OUT DOOR stadiums!!

lots of these " studies ""are Paid for by grants from " Public advocacy" groups that in turn get their funding from big Law firms looking for "" data" for goofy get rich quick law suits.

Want to KILL local racing for good? let some odd ball study get some skewed data showing that all race fans who attend a race should be wearing a respirator.\\


think of all the money the big law firms could win by suing local tracks and even the deep pockets of NASCAR, based on some goofy study.