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Econo Mod Class
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:57 am    Post subject: Econo Mod Class Reply with quote

I would like to see if there is any interest in starting up a new Modified class to take advantage of all the Modifieds that are sitting around with no engines. Here's a brief look at how I would like to see the rules:

Same body and chassis rules as the existing Spartan Modifieds
Maximum 360 CI with overbore allowed, stock stroke only
Flat top pistons with nothing above the block deck
Valve reliefs allowed in pistons
Maximum .450 lift hydraulic cam
Cast iron blocks and heads (certain cast iron heads not allowed)
2.02/1.60 max valve sizes
Aluminum intake allowed
Holley 4412 2bbl only
Cast iron exhaust manifolds
Mufflers with 2 inch maximum outlet size
Weight 2300 minimum, no left side or rear percentage
No alcohol allowed
Inexpensive DOT Street radial tires (size and possibly spec tire to be determined)

Would there be very much interest in a class like this for Springport? With enough interest, I'm thinking a guaranteed payout could be maybe $250 or so to win and somewhere around $60 to start. The cost of operating one of these Modifieds would be very low, especially the tire bill. Plus, they could run on premium pump gas.

I've just got some ideas floating around in my head right now, so how about some of you share your ideas too?

-Maurice
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Jerry Garland



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 145

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maurice,

I think this all sounds great. But the only thing that I would add is a crate motor instead of allowing someone to build there own motor. This would cut down on Teching and whining. Also you could put in a motor claim/switch, which would entail switching motors and handing them $1000.00 (or whatever for cash) This would keep the cheating motors out and keep the field level, and it would keep people from wanting to crack open the sealed crate motor for some extra power.

The only other thing that I would add to the rules would be a fuel octane rule. Make it so they have to run a pump fuel. Not racing fuel but something like 94 octane. this would still allow performance and keep costs down to a minimum.

But all in all this sounds very good.


Jerry
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Lack o Diesel



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 228
Location: Charlotte

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maurice,

Great thinking I've been talking about this very topic now for at least a year. At least now something may be done with it. My two cents isn't worth much but it's worth something I suppose.


1. I like the CI limit, although it adds a tech procedure and equipment. I also feel it should be checked often and randomly. Basically all the engine rules are perfect. Crate motors are a good choice. But the exact motor needs to be specified with a fine tooth comb. Chevy, Ford, and Dodge.

2. Love the two barrel idea

3. I would say allow aftermarket headers for one reason, most chassis already have jig built header that fits. Just choke them down with a small outlet, and a max tube size. This gives guys the option to run a variety of chassis with very little setup time and parts

4. As far as weight goes, guys could get out of hand with lead and have some really offset cars. I think that there has to be a left side and rear percentage rule. Some guys may not have access to scales so give every one a week as long as they are improving the weight problem.

5. Tires..... Well my own opinion is that you need to run a "racing" tire. Not a real soft fast one but something that a guy could buy four of at the beginning of a year and if he's careful run them all season. I would just hate to see the tire issue on these cars get to the discussions like in the pony stocks. Guys get smarter and learn what they can do with tires. It's also another limiting facter in speed. Get a really hard long lasting tire.


If there is anything I can do to help this along Maurice let me know, I feel there is major outlet for parked cars. Some guys may even sell off the engines they have to build a smaller more econimical engine to run in a division like this.


Perry
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oz



Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO if you run a street tire then there is no need to have difficult to tech engine rules.Run the same rules as Spartan with the only difference being the tire.Teams could hopefully run the same 4 tires all year long.You could have the payout that you mention due to the tire savings.Big motors will be at a disadvantage racing on a street tire.You would have more cars if the Spartan cars were legal except for the tire difference.Sounds like fun to me,I've always wondered how my car would drive with street tires on.
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Champ2x36



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 48
Location: Auburn, IN

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a great idea. The crate engine would be a good idea. You could use the GM Performance Parts "602" street stock engine.

As something to throw out there for consideration that is really along the lines of Maurice's ideas for engine rules, this is a copy and paste of the engine rules for the I-Mod class www.imods4u.com that run at Shady Hill, In; Plymouth, IN; and Kankakee, IL.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7. ENGINE

A. BLOCKS Only Chevrolet 305 or 350 cubic in. engines allowed. A maximum of .060 oversize bore allowed. A minimum of zero deck clearance allowed.

B. PISTONS Flat top or dish pistons only. Flat top pistons must have 4 valve reliefs of equal size in each piston.

C. CONNECTING RODS Stock Chevrolet 5.7 rods only. No polished beams. No aluminum or steel racing rods allowed.

D. CRANKSHAFT Only stock Chevrolet OEM GM 3.48 stroke crankshaft allowed. Crankshaft cannot be stroked, knifedged, or drilled for lightening.

E. CAMSHAFT & LIFTERS Stock OEM 327-350 HP spec hydraulic cam only. NO #4-#7 swap. Cam specifications: @.050 duration; 222 intake and exhaust SAE duration; 290 intake and exhaust Cam lift; .298. Cam part numbers (Speed Pro) #CS179R, (Clevite) #1137, (Crane) #967601. Hydraulic lifters only! no solid lifters, no roller lifters, no hydraulic roller lifters, and no mushroom lifters.

F. ROCKER ARMS Rocker arms must be of stock configurations 1.5 or 1.6 ratio. No roller rockers or roller tip rockers.

G. CYLINDER HEADS Stock GM heads only. GM part number cast on heads must end in 416,450,601,624,801,882. Intake valve maximum size; 1.94. Exhaust valve maximum size; 1.50. No porting, polishing, or deburring on heads. No match porting to manifold. 3 angle valve job permitted. Intake valves only may be unshrouded where grinding stone or cutter is used for 3 angle valve job or where seats are installed for 1.94 valves. Combustion chamber must be a minimum of 55cc. Screw in rocker studs are allowed.

H. INTAKE MANIFOLD Stock GM low rise Quadrajet manifolds only. May be cast iron or aluminum. No Bowties, High Performance, or after market manifolds allowed. No match porting of manifold to heads. No porting, polishing, or machining on intake manifold.

I. OIL PANS Wet sump oil system and pans only. No dry sump system allowed.

J. IGNITION SYSTEM Stock OEM style HEI distributor only. All ignition related parts must be under cap, coil must be inside cap. No MSD performance modules allowed. All ignition parts must resemble stock GM ignition parts.

K. CARBURETOR Stock out of the box Holley 4412 500 CFM carburetor only allowed. Only choke plate and shaft may be removed. Must retain full choke horn. No milling of throttle shaft or throttle plates. Must retain stock boosters, stock venturi bore 1 3/8 , and stock throttle bore 1 11/16 . Adapter plate between intake and carburetor can not exceed 1 ( including gaskets ). No C&S, Barry Grant, etc. The I-MOD Association reserves the right to exchange carburetor with any competitor at any time.

L. HARMONIC BALANCERS OEM style harmonic balancers only. No fluid dampers allowed.

M. COOLING SYSTEM Cooling system may be modified. No radiators or coolers allowed in drivers compartment and shall not protrude above interior.

N. EXHAUST SYSTEM May use any header. Exhaust system must be mounted in such a way as to direct spent gases away from the drivers compartment of vehicle and from areas of possible fuel spillage.

O. ENGINE LOCATION Engine must be centered in the frame rails. NO-OFFSET Bell housing flange of block must be a minimum of 72 forward from the center of rear axle.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A suggestion for an engine that would be even cheaper would be to use the Goodwrench Universal 350, that can be purchased new for $1700. According to the Pace Performance website the heads part number isn't on this list, but it states "This head is very similar to the old #882 castings from the 1970's" (which are listed in the above rules). With the cam listed in the I-mod rules, which is the 327 CI 350 HP cam, the cam would be exactly what Maurice is suggesting.
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Champ2x36



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 48
Location: Auburn, IN

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maurice,

I think staying with 1.94 intake and 1.50 exhaust valves would be the way to go. There's a LOT more of the heads with the 1.94/1.50 valves floating around to be bought "on the cheap" than there are with the 2.02/1.60 valves.
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Drake Racing 14 28
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

claim rule maybe?
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the record, I've never been in favor of a claim rule. And as you read on, you'll understand where claiming could kill this class if it does indeed come to be.

Anyway, I've received very favorable responses to this subject, both here and on the MSTRC.com message board, read the following thread:

http://www.mstrc.com/index.php?showtopic=15054

I've also received favorable responses in person. It seems as though there are a number of Spartan Modified drivers who would like to race in this division and who are also willing to accept a few sacrifices in performance. Suggestions include placing exhaust restrictors on the end of the exhaust outlets, adding a restrictor plate under the carb to allow the same 4-bbl, and going to a hard Goodyear racing tire. There is a Goodyear that is about the same size as the existing American Racer that will last a long, long time. Most teams could probably race an entire season on one set of tires if they don't overdrive their race cars.

By restricting the existing high horsepower cars, it allows them to race with someone who will build a cheap engine. Both setups can be competitive with each other if the restrictions are done right.

If all the cars had $500 engines, we could implement a claiming rule, but if we attract a lot of high dollar engined cars, we can't allow their engines to be claimed. They simply would not race. However, the attraction of being able to race at Springport in a very affordable way is a big draw for these guys. Also, restricting their horsepower output would limit the RPM's and make the engines live longer. With the ability to build a cheap engine and be competitive while allowing existing cars to come in and race, this class could start out with a very big car count right off the bat.

I'm listening, keep the ideas coming as something like this could fly and be very successful and highly popular.

-Maurice
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STT#98



Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 78
Location: Union City, Mi.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think only the 4412 carb you could put a claim with exchange option on the 2bbl carb like $250 that is about the cost of a new carb then that would cut down on the high dollar carbs you can find a used 4412 from $50 to $100 and a rebuild kit for about $25
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Wes Boyd



Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a probably unworkable idea that I thought I'd throw out for the sake of something different: restrictor plates.

Everybody starts the season with, say, a 1" restrictor plate. The top two or three or whatever finishers each week get a 15/16" the following weeks. The bottom three running finishers get a 1 1/16". If a guy running a 15/16" wins again, he goes to 7/8"; if a guy running a 1 1/16" finishes in the bottom three again, he gets 1 1/8" And so on.

Visitors get to start with the standard 1".

I could be way wrong, but it seems to me that over the course of a few weeks the field would get leveled pretty well.

-- Wes Boyd
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STT#98



Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 78
Location: Union City, Mi.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wes Boyd wrote:
Here's a probably unworkable idea that I thought I'd throw out for the sake of something different: restrictor plates.

Everybody starts the season with, say, a 1" restrictor plate. The top two or three or whatever finishers each week get a 15/16" the following weeks. The bottom three running finishers get a 1 1/16". If a guy running a 15/16" wins again, he goes to 7/8"; if a guy running a 1 1/16" finishes in the bottom three again, he gets 1 1/8" And so on.

Visitors get to start with the standard 1".

I could be way wrong, but it seems to me that over the course of a few weeks the field would get leveled pretty well.

-- Wes Boyd


that seems like a neat idea but it would be quite a bit of work for the scorers and tech man
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STT#98



Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 78
Location: Union City, Mi.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will add this here but I think it sould apply to every short track feature. If you win the feature the next feature you start the tail.
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titmusenterprises



Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 17
Location: grand ledge, mi.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:57 pm    Post subject: emods Reply with quote

maurice, i really like your idea and looks like your getting good responce. if it can be a go how long before rules for the track and class can be posted? before the end of the yr. possible? people would like to get started soon i would think. thanks jeff titmus
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Michigan Cup event didn't draw very many Modifieds. I'm trying to figure out why. It's the end of the season and there was very little in the way of conflicts with other tracks.

The purse was decent with $700 to win and $125 to start. Was it too small?

Did the "Run what ya brung" rules keep some teams away?

Do some of the teams not want to race there with me as the promoter?

Is the track itself no longer a draw?

Is it the economy? If so, the purse should have been good enough to offset it.

I really expected 24-30 Modifieds to show up. This was a big event paying very well. The Michigan Cup was a test for me in numerous ways. One test was to see what kind of response certain classes would draw. I didn't expect to get any extra FWD Pure Stocks, so that class doesn't count here. It drew a decent crowd of Pony Stocks, that class is very encouragiing. The ABC Stock Car class was very good. I'm very happy with how that one turned out.

But I'm disappointed with the turnout of the Modifieds. Yet, once again, those who came had a good time and I'm glad you guys came. With such a low car count, you still put on a show.

At the Racin' & Rockin' show, I had determined the lack of a guaranteed purse is what kept the teams away. But now, I'm not sure. I keep hearing that the payout at Springport this year keeps some guys from coming, yet anytime I have offered a nice guaranteed purse this year at various events, it didn't bring the cars. So, the payout is not the problem, unless someone can convince me otherwise.

I would have thought that a bunch of Modified teams would have jumped at the chance to race at a big event at Springport. Now, I wonder if an Econo Mod class would fly, especially with a smaller payout than the Michigan Cup.

-Maurice
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CC32



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:35 pm    Post subject: Mods at Mi Cup Reply with quote

Maurice,

For sure the "run what you brung" rules had an effect.
The regular Mods from the Zoo didn't gear up for their own open rules show, except for Dan & Nyle. I heard they were the only Mods that showed. So virtually no cars to draw from the Zoo.

Not to many at Spartan on friday night, and not all of those cars came to Springport either, which could be due to the three nights of racing in a row. Three in a row, is a big commitment of time and money. I'm sure a few guy's would have loved to do three in a row, but just could not pull it off.

I believe it was a combination of things that led to the low car count for Mods, and I hope you don't give up on them. Sure would like to see them run weekly again next year, or maybe the year after.

RowZ
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