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shocks/suspensions
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and one more thing... don't make a rule because it allows travelers. That idea is becoming less and less viable. Drivers aren't traveling much at all nowadays. They pick a track and race there each week. Some race at two tracks, but not as many as 15-20 years ago. Cater to those who will race at your track week after week and don't worry about allowing a traveler to come in and race. The one-timers are not important.

Likewise, the regulars that say they want to be able to travel to other tracks don't do it very much at all, only once in awhile. They say they will and then they don't. So, it's not a big deal if a rule is applied at one track. If it works, other tracks will follow.

Save the locals some money and in the end, it will be better. And keep the teching simple.

-Maurice
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tricknology



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bilstein shocks has welded shocks that they will valve any way you want.

Any shock can be taken apart, revalved and re-welded back together so that no can tell if the shock has been changed.

You guys got a can of worms to deal with.

Bump stop and BBSS setups have made older Super LM's obsolete, because they now need a special raised front clip and rack, and front suspension...there are SLM's that are only 5 years old that are now worthless because they do not have the proper front clip and supension parts for the ideal bump stop and BBSS setups.

IMHO, bump stop & BBSS could obsolite most current mods, because someone will build a raised clip mod with special suspension parts that are ideal for BBSS & bump stop.

I wish you guys the wisdom to handle this in a way that will not kill MOD car counts.

arnold.
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tricknology



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mopar93 wrote:
Cost savings should be the number one priority. A $250 shock rule is too much. $1000 for one set of shocks is too much money to spend. Plus, it's too hard to tech whether a shock is legal or not when it's based on the retail price. It becomes something that must be researched.

The track doesn't have a $115 tire rule. No, it has a spec tire and everyone is happy with that. So, there should also be a spec shock. And it should not be any of the special trick shocks that are available. It should be something like the inexpensive AFCO shocks for $65 retail cost. They can be bought for less than that from a dealer.

There should only be about 3 choices for a front shock and 3 choices for a rear shock as far as allowable damping. That way, no large inventory is needed. The shocks are welded steel body shocks and have identifiable numbers on them. If they appear to have been tampered with in any way, they are illegal. Same deal with the tires, tamper with them and they are illegal.

Force the drivers to play with springs, swaybars, chassis adjustments, tire pressures, stagger, and driver ability and eliminate the out of control shock absorber game.

I have no say so in this any longer, so please ignore the above.

-Maurice


I like this idea,,,but For this to work the track would have to have a shock dyno.

and no track is going to buy a shock dyno.
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tricknology



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Logan and others,,

How would you word/write a rule to out law BBSS and Bumps stop, set ups on mods?

set maximum sway bar diameter?

set minimm sway bar arm lenght?

set minimum wheel travel?

set shock travel specs?
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tricknology



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To all,

Should BBSS and bump stop setups be out lawed on MODS?
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84



Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mopar93 wrote:
Oh, and one more thing... don't make a rule because it allows travelers. That idea is becoming less and less viable. Drivers aren't traveling much at all nowadays. They pick a track and race there each week. Some race at two tracks, but not as many as 15-20 years ago. Cater to those who will race at your track week after week and don't worry about allowing a traveler to come in and race. The one-timers are not important.

Likewise, the regulars that say they want to be able to travel to other tracks don't do it very much at all, only once in awhile. They say they will and then they don't. So, it's not a big deal if a rule is applied at one track. If it works, other tracks will follow.

Save the locals some money and in the end, it will be better. And keep the teching simple.

-Maurice


Couldn't disagree more. I have raced on a avg of at least 4 different tracks every year!
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

84 wrote:

Couldn't disagree more. I have raced on a avg of at least 4 different tracks every year!


Maybe I wasn't completely clear. I meant that there aren't as many drivers doing much traveling as there were 15-20 years ago or more. Yes, some still travel, but not as many and not as much. Some of the traveling is also limited to the year-end stuff.

It's fun to go to different tracks, but the traveling costs are higher today. Possible rain is also a killer.

-Maurice
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CC32



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:50 pm    Post subject: Shocks, etc. Reply with quote

We should not discount the travellers and cater to regulars.

The consistent across the board Mod rules that we have now is great.
We can go anywhere to race, and most any Mod can come race with us.

There must have been at least six travellers that raced with us at the Wild Child 100. Nice to have those cars help make a special race even better.

A couple of those travellers made one or more repeat appearences at Spartan, Chris Stearns, and AJ Foote.
We also had cars travel in here and there through out the year.

Our car raced 4 different tracks this year and we were a Spartan regular.
Last year I'd consider our car not a regular at Spartan, and we visited 7 tracks.

The Mod rules may need, and get a tweak or two, but we all need to express the importance of keeping all the Michigan tracks under same set of rules just as they are now.

Sway Bars
OEM sway bars is a good rule. They are cheap and work well. I don't think a diameter rule needs to be instituted. Current bar sizes being used run the gammut from small to large, and size is determined by the individuals set up and what is required to balance the car.

Has anyone seen LM style sway bars on a mod yet? I have not.

Shocks
There are good quality rebuildable shocks available for small money.
You may outlaw the high dollar shocks with a lower $ per corner rule, but guy's will still get their shocks the way they want them at the lower $ amount.

Bumps
Easy to ban, if you can see them.


-Brian
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tricknology wrote:

I like this idea,,,but For this to work the track would have to have a shock dyno.


No they wouldn't. The track would just stock at least one of each allowable shock. Then if there is a potential suspect, a simple shock swap is all it takes. Then the track can send the suspected shock to a shock dyno service such as Windpushers and have it tested. Maybe a shock dyno shop would sponsor the track and provide this service for free.

And stocking shocks isn't a bad deal either. They can be made available for purchase to any team that needs a new shock. It's simply a matter of working a deal with a shock supplier to get a small inventory of shocks on hand. Maybe a consignment deal can be worked out in exchange for advertising at the track.

Cheap and easy to implement. And it's a cost saver to the teams.

Rewind the technology back to the 80's and early 90's and save some money.

Once again, just ignore my nonsense.

-Maurice
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84



Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the best things about the modifieds has alaways been that the rules where so close at every track you could show up at any track any weekend where mods are racing. I would hate to see Spartan add rules that would hurt there car count. They are getting the most mods on a weekly basic then any other track in MI. Just my opinion.
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Shocks, etc. Reply with quote

CC32 wrote:
The Mod rules may need, and get a tweak or two, but we all need to express the importance of keeping all the Michigan tracks under same set of rules just as they are now.


Then all MSPA asphalt tracks should implement the same cheap shock rule.

-Maurice
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tricknology



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mopar93 wrote:
tricknology wrote:

I like this idea,,,but For this to work the track would have to have a shock dyno.


No they wouldn't. The track would just stock at least one of each allowable shock. Then if there is a potential suspect, a simple shock swap is all it takes. Then the track can send the suspected shock to a shock dyno service such as Windpushers and have it tested. Maybe a shock dyno shop would sponsor the track and provide this service for free.

And stocking shocks isn't a bad deal either. They can be made available for purchase to any team that needs a new shock. It's simply a matter of working a deal with a shock supplier to get a small inventory of shocks on hand. Maybe a consignment deal can be worked out in exchange for advertising at the track.

Cheap and easy to implement. And it's a cost saver to the teams.

Rewind the technology back to the 80's and early 90's and save some money.

Once again, just ignore my nonsense.

-Maurice


Maybe then,,,

If that is the case, you could just require a spec shock for the Left Front that would be a old fashioned # 5, 6, or 7....

I think , BBSS and bumps stops will not work with a Standard #5,6 or #7 shock on the LF.

and if that is the case, then only conventional spring and shock packages would work,,,which is what most mods have now.
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tricknology wrote:

If that is the case, you could just require a spec shock for the Left Front that would be a old fashioned # 5, 6, or 7....

I think , BBSS and bumps stops will not work with a Standard #5,6 or #7 shock on the LF.

and if that is the case, then only conventional spring and shock packages would work,,,which is what most mods have now.


I don't think that would work. The other 3 shocks can be tuned so that the LF shock is nearly useless coming off the corners. Visualize a Midget coming off turn two and going down the back straight with the LF off the ground.

The "cheap shock" rule would have to be used at all four corners.

Yup, a selection of 5, 6, and 7 would be good. Bump and rebound should be the same.

The guys could apply their knowledge to the rest of the package. And there isn't anything high-dollar in the rest of the package. Why allow high-dollar shocks? You can only spend just so much on a spring. There's no such thing as an $800 spring. OEM style swaybars can only do just so much and they aren't expensive. Adjusting tire pressures is free. Stagger is free, it's built into the cost of the tire. Toe, wedge, and ride height adjustments are free.

And the argument about those who already have expensive shocks? Oh well.

Yeah, I know, I don't have anything to do with this. Just tell me to shut up, everybody.

-Maurice
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TOM HERNLY JR



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this pure stock or modified racing? God help all of ya.
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Mopar93



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Charlotte, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TOM HERNLY JR wrote:
Is this pure stock or modified racing? God help all of ya.


An AFCO #5 shock is not a stock shock. So, it will still be Modified racing. And Modifieds were using them for a long time.

Is this Modified racing or Formula 1?

-Maurice
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